Hi there.

Cataloguing classical CDs is still a problem as CATraxx (like all similar programs and online information sources) is “single track oriented”.

I use CATraxx for all other musical genres and I find it completely satisfying but every time I try with classical I get back to my old self-made Notes DB: I think that a good improvement could be done with little effort with an extended use of the “Edit Media” window modifying it in order to edit not only A and B sides of an LP or K7 but also as many composition titles as contained on a single side (inserting and intermediate object).

Hoping to make it more clear, I downloaded from CDDB the contents of J.S. Bach Cantatas vol. 11 3CDs set performed by Ton Koopman etc.: I got the detail of the tracks (with some problem for CD1 probably uploaded by a non-latin language) but the titles of the Cantatas are missing on CD3 and repeated on all concerned tracks on CD2.

I think it would work better if I could insert the composition title appending the concerned tracks obtained from CDDB: the idea is to reproduce the contents of the booklets. Maybe it could be possible also to build a works list for every composer.

Antonio

Hi Tamani

I understand exactly what you mean by the "single track oriented" nature of CATraxx. This doesn't represent a problem to me in cataloguing classical data. It does represent a problem occasionally in playing the tracks.

I've used two custom fields (one text, one checkbox) at the track level. In the text box I hold whatever I consider to be the title of the Work in question. So every movement (i.e. track) of a symphony will have the same entry for the Work. I use the checkbox on only the first movement, so when I group, sort or filter by Composer, I can also include a filter by the checkbox and only get one instance of each work appearing. Obviously if I have several versions of a Work by different artists I see one entry in my list per artist and work. This actually seems to work OK for me.
(I've also used an identical method to hold a Section (for lack of a better word) of a Work. So a Work might be an opera, with 3 Acts, each as a Section, and each track 'belongs' to one Section and the overall Work.)

However if I decide I want to listen to an entire symphony I can't find a simple way to queue all tracks relating to that version without manipulating each track in the right order and loading them to the audio player one after the other. That might be bearable for a 3 or 4 movement symphony, but I just don't think I'd try it for all variations in the Goldbergs! I've only just begun to try to formulate the idea of experimenting with multiple dynamic playlists. I haven't tried doing anything yet - it's at the level of a 'thought experiment'. Could I somehow create playlists where the entries would be selected by having the same Work and Artist? If I could do this automatically, or easily manually, I wonder if it would be a usable way to handle works for playing. And, after all, that's what they're there for.

Regards

Ken

I may cross-post this, but let me give my take on the much-discussed classical problem. I welcome comments because, though I've been using Cattrax for quite a few years for non-classical music, I'm just getting ready to take a shot at migrating my classical database in. (I've read many of the prior discussions about this.)

I originally began cataloging 20 years ago in a DOS version of DBase that had no facility for individual tracks. I addressed the classical issue at that time by making a separate entry for each work along with a field that tells me what album it is on if it was not the lead work on the album. I don't know why this wouldn't be a good solution in cattrax too, and simpler than the others that people have proposed.

The main sort field e.g., "Artist", is the composer. The album title is the work. A new entry is made for each piece, not each disc.

Thus, if a CD were to have Tchaik 4 plus Marche Slav as a filler, one entry is for the symphony with each movement as a track, and another separate entry is for Marche Slav. (Perhaps the new box set feature would easily allow tying "Symph 4" and "Marche Slav" together, making this an even better solution, but I haven't yet upgraded to v9.)

If the filler work is by a different composer or you have, say, a disc of violin showpieces by many artists, no problem. You can look up any work by the easiest possible way -- sort on Artist (composer) then Title.

If the different works are performed by different artists, no problem, since each work is its own separate entry.

Thus, by sorting on the artist / album title you can easily find any piece on your collection. By sorting on album title you can find any piece by it's name. By doing lookup on performer/conductor/orchestra you find every "album" -- i.e., composition, that the soloist/conductor/orchestra is on.

What are the downsides? You can't necessarily run statistics, like how many items are in your collection. That doesn't seem so bad. This has worked pretty well for me for a long time. Anything else I'm missing?

In case I wasn't clear:

Artist = Composer
Title = Name of _one_ composition on the disc (additional "album" for each composition on disc**)
Tracks = Each movement of the composition
People = soloist(s), conductor, ensemble for that one composition


*join each album with the box set feature if it works the way I think it does

Oh no no no no, you've just jabbed me with your cattle prod! Are you one of those people who upload data to CDDB with Beethoven as the 'Artist'? Grrrr!
As I've said many time before, if only!

I'm not going to change my reactionary old stance: an Artist is someone who performs on the Album or Track. And you'll have to prise that view from my cold dead brain. Every single track in CATraxx can have a Composer assigned to it in a dedicated field (or Composer plus Arranger e.g. Beethoven and Liszt, or Composer plus Librettist e.g. Mozart and Da Ponte) - why go messing up the Artist table with Composers?

I accept that Composer is relatively more 'important' in classical music than it is in most other forms, but a lot of solutions to cataloging classical result in it almost being the only field given any importance. Everything else becomes subservient to it and I just don't see music that way. Sure, I might want to find a Mahler symphony, but I might also want to find all Murray Perahia's keyboard recordings, or maybe some lute music by anybody from any era. I want the same flexibility of access to my classical stuff by whatever means as I do for all my other music.

I also quite like having reasonably consistent rules for myself when handling data. Do you stick Lennon/McCartney or Goffin/King in the Artist field (as 'composers') for every one of their songs you have?

Sorry, I'm going to lie down somewhere quiet to recover ...

Ken

I don't really see this as a philosophical issue, it's whatever works best in the software.

One critical thing I didn't say explicitly: I keep separate classical and non-classical database file. There is no mixing of artists and composers in the same field. McCartney's Oratorio goes in the classical database under McCartney. Beatles albums go in the everything else database under Beatles. On rare occassions I'll enter an album in both where one might look in either database to find it, say, a Kurt Weil collection.




Well, with that I agree 100%. If I only wanted to search by composer, I'd just look on my shelves. The question is -- and I ask genuinely, not rhetorically -- how is it that my method does not provide that functionality?

Hello
I'm please to notice this topic and let me add some to this
I'm using this program for long time and I have similar problems with catalogue for Classic Music and Jazz Masterpieces. I've tried different methods but without satisfactory result.
I have an idea which probably can resize program's features and give more new solutions for creating new collections.
In table track there is Sub-title part which is not editable. Making this part active with editable fields as track table has, can resolve many problems for this kind of collection. For me this will be very appreciated to have such possibility
Regards
Arek

Performers go into the artist field, full stop. This is what works best in the software. There is precedent in the field of classical music for doing so: one only need look at the Schwann Artist catalog.

This is even clearer if one collects classical music by living composers, who often appear as performers and conductors of their own works and of works by others. It's much simpler to keep straight the discs featuring the work of John Adams conducted by Edo de Waart from the CDs where John Adams conducts someone else's work, and the discs where Adams conducts his own work, if the artist fields contains only performers.

I started a long time ago (it seems) and really only care about classical music so have noted and adapted to some of the shortcomings. While recognizing the right of those who need to document infinite detail (ie weeks in chart, infinite genre levels etc) I am quite satisfied as is and would be quite happy with something akin to "catraxx lite" rather than the rich detail currently available.
That said, I have no desire to change. I agree that artist can well meet the needs of performer/conductor/soloist/orchestra (as you can add many performers in the artist field). Then, I have hijacked the awards field (quite frankly I do not care if it was a gramophone disc of the month). I use that and again, on a classical compilation can add many Composers relating to that album. Simple, and will not be for everyone. But meets my needs and allows me to find what I want very quickly. Its a great product and the fact that so many of use can use it in so many ways is outstanding! Gordon K

Well, then, though I'm not yet talked out of my system - I'm not sure everyone understood it -- but let me make another proposal.

Use the artist fields for all relevant performers.
In the title field, list the composer followed by the name of the piece.

Title: Beethoven Symphony No. 5 in C- Op.37

This allows you to easily list by composer, easily list by any performer. What it doesn't do is list every symphony by every composer by the Title field, but you can accomplish that by making symphony (etude, etc.) a genre.

And it's also more consistent with how we commonly think of the pieces. "I adore Chopin's Etude in __." As distinct from most pop and jazz where the composer is secondary to the performer ("Do you have the Shirells' 'Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" Not "Do you have Goffin and King's Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow? Yes? Which version?"

Let me note again that I believe in separate databases for classical and for everything else. (Mixing them is too many different kinds of pegs into the same hole.)